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SpiderKitten






PostPosted: 10 Jan 2005 10:37    Post subject: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

So Weebo and I were discussing yesterday the emergance of the goth culture as we know it
today and the music behind it.

We agreed to disagree on most things icon_razz.gif

But I thought why not open it up for discussion among the Internet fam, knowing how much
we like debating.....

So who were the emerging goth bands for you?



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IcingSugarGirl






PostPosted: 10 Jan 2005 12:54    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

Uhm...well, I think the original goth band was Alien Sex Fiend, but having said that I
honestly think goth in music started with The Man In Black himself, Johnny Cash. An
oxymoron considering he was country & western, but then, true goth is an attitude, and he
had it. But I don't expect my opinion to be real popular on here!!!

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countto6anddie






PostPosted: 11 Jan 2005 06:48    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

are you talking about which bands are currently emerging, or the earlier ones from the
70's/80's?

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SpiderKitten






PostPosted: 11 Jan 2005 10:03    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

Well the debate Weebs and I were having was about those that were at the fore front of the
movement in the 70's. The main thing we agreed to disagree on was that I felt the Cure
were there at the beginning stages.....

Johny Cash? Nice......

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weebo






PostPosted: 11 Jan 2005 10:30    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

*yawns and stretchs out* most bands who played in a quite lil club that once was in a
place called Soho called "The Batcave" thus never a place has been such a back bone of the
gothic culture in its emgerging days

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countto6anddie






PostPosted: 11 Jan 2005 12:23    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

I think the whole goth scene originated between 1979-1983. Although the word "goth" wasnt
used much to describe bands. Id say Bauhaus, UK Decay, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Joy
Division, and later Sex Gang Children, Sisters of Mercy, Christian Death......also
Specimen and Alien Sex Fiend (batcave/goth type bands).

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cruella






PostPosted: 11 Jan 2005 12:30    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

yes, I do agree with Christian Death, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy.... then followed by Joy
Division, Siouxsie and the Banshees (who started as punk till they got a little more
mello) and Sisters of Mercy....

also as the Early 1970's: David Bowie released "The man who sold the world" and "Diamond
dogs" . Both albums were steeped in gloom. At the time, Bowie described them as being
Gothic.

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weebo






PostPosted: 12 Jan 2005 14:04    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

Bowie has always been glam rock -_-

and we must not forget bands such as " theater of ice " who claim themselves to be the
Godfarhers of goth -_-

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Cruella






PostPosted: 13 Jan 2005 03:31    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

weebo wrote:
Bowie has always been glam rock -_-

and we must not forget bands such as " theater of ice " who claim themselves to be the
Godfarhers of goth -_-


Don't get me wrong... I wasn't saying that Bowie was "Goth" I was just saying that it was
about the time.... when those albums came out, that people were starting to refer to music
as goth.

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countto6anddie






PostPosted: 13 Jan 2005 06:17    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

SOMEONE SAID:
"I do agree with Christian Death, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy.... then followed by Joy
Division, Siouxsie and the Banshees (who started as punk till they got a little more
mello) and Sisters of Mercy...."

I think Siouxsie and Joy Division were among the firsts before 1980.But they were more
recognized as "post punk". Sisters of Mercy didnt really make an impact until about 1982 I
think? And same with Christian Death, 1982/83.
This is just my learned knowledge, I wasnt born until 1983!


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MALCOMXBLISS






PostPosted: 07 Jul 2005 17:51    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

The debate about "who was first" kind of assumes that one band started doing something
then others were somehow influenced or inspired to carry on in a similar vien. That sort
of debate makes since when discussing a music scene in a particular metropolis; such as
London, Manchester, New York or Los Angeles. But you mentioned Theatre of Ice and that
band has an interesting past. They started out in a small farming community without having
heard any of the music normally associated with the "gothic" scene. Their inspiration
were horror movies amd not other musical groups.

I believe that "Godfathers of Gothic Terror" came from some newspaper artticle back in the
early 80's.


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weebo






PostPosted: 08 Jul 2005 11:03    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

2005 "goth" band = "deathrock" bands (well thats my opinion.)

E.G. "Bloody Dead & Sexy"

icon_razz.gif

But sadly what will be rembered as "goth" will be mainstream popular shite like Manson and
Cradle of filth

so it doesnt really matter where we carry this topic it will be pointless... (until they
legalize hunting babybats.)

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MALCOMXBLISS






PostPosted: 08 Jul 2005 15:13    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote


Actually the debate was about "those bands that were at the fore front of the
movement in the 70's." The point I was making was that there have always been groups
that have played dark spooky music and flirted with horror themes --- clear back to the
40's and 50's. At some point someone not connected to the miusic (the press generally)
decided to goroup some of these bands together and label them as "gothic" or "deathrock"
or "coldwave' or whatever. After that you get the scores of copy-cat groups that make it a
"genre".

The comment about Theatre of Ice was in direct reference to weebo's comment abouth them
proclaiming themselves the "godfathers of goth". They actually called themselves the
"godfathers of gothic terror" -- a name someone in the press layed on them. But the truth
is they were there in the late seventies doing the same type of music the more noted
"goth" bands were doing.
+

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weebo






PostPosted: 12 Jul 2005 11:33    Post subject: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

Theatre of Ice did actuly state they are "the godfathers of goth" they use to have a web
site a few years ago on which "the godfarthers of goth" was written right under their name
on the main page... i dont know if they still have that, but years ago they did.

btw who the fuck are you, how rude to just to put your 2 cents in befor introduceing
yourself.

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MALCOMXBLISS






PostPosted: 12 Jul 2005 18:25    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

Actually it says "The Godfathers of Gothic Terror". Maybe a display error chomped off the
end of it. And while I would say they were there at the beginning, I would say they were
not the "Godfathers" of anything since they probably influenced no other bands to do
anything.
Not that they weren't cool, but the audiances they played to in Utah, Nevada, Idaho...
weren't exactly into that scene. I saw them play a few times in the early 80's and had
the good fortune to run into one of their guitarist in the woods on a hunting trip one
afternoon about 10 years ago. He told me some crazy stories. I always thought it would
make a good book. Maybe some day.

Who am I? I am Malcom Bliss. I was very into the punk-goth scene in the late 70's and
80's and after graduating from university I helped a few bands put out a few records and
cds on a little label I put together. Some good, some not so good.

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weebo






PostPosted: 13 Jul 2005 18:12    Post subject: Re: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

it may have been an error but i highly doubt it...

and reply to your introduction "thank you" about your label haveing good and bad "happens
to the best" icon_razz.gif



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Erevan






PostPosted: 25 Aug 2005 10:54    Post subject: Let the 2005 debates begin Reply with quote

What about the Cult, the Cure, The Mission?
They were all early indie goth bands (arguably even the Smiths).
In Uk, these bands seem to be getting really popular again.

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